Thank you for your contribution, Susan.  I have a follow-up question or two.

 

First, there can be differences in the calculated graduation rate, depending on whether an institution “subtracts from the initial GR cohort” those students that transfer out, or whether an institution adds to its completion count those students who transfer out and subsequently complete their four-year degree at another institution.  Based on your comments below, I understand that it is permissible neither to count as completers those who earn their degree at a second institution nor to subtract from the bachelor’s degree-seeking cohort those students who transfer out.  Am I thinking correctly about this?

 

Second, the issue you address separately below is of considerable interest to us at La Sierra University.  An important issue for us is that we admit students into these “transfer prep” programs with essentially the same process (and, historically, the same resultant student classifications) that we use for bachelors degree-seekers.  This directly implies that “transfer prep” students at LSU do not need to submit additional application materials to qualify as “bachelors degree-seekers.”  They are, in effect, bachelors students with “transfer prep” type majors (e.g., pre-pharmacy).  I am under the impression that such students may not be excluded from our bachelors cohort because they may unilaterally elect to join a bachelors degree program, based on the prior admissions decision.  Is this accurate?  And would it make sense, technically, to adopt a separate application/admissions action for the purpose of “filtering” such students from our bachelors degree-seeking cohort? 

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on these matters, either directly to me or in this forum if it may be relevant to others.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Nate Brandstater

La Sierra University

nbrandst@lasierra.edu

 


From: Broyles, Susan [mailto:Susan.Broyles@ed.gov]
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 11:33 AM
To: Common Data Set
Subject: [cds] RE: Graduation Rates & transfer outs

 

I'd like to try to clear up a misunderstanding that seems to be coming through the listserv about transfers out and reporting graduation rates, especially to IPEDS.

 

First, institutions that have transfer as part of their mission are required to report transfer out data in IPEDS. This is covered under the Student Right-to-Know regulations. 

 

If an institution is required to report transfers out, or if they voluntarily report transfers out, they should not include this information/data with their completers.  Transfers out are reported separately and rates are calculated separately.  Institutions may not count as completers (in the IPEDS GRS), those students who transfer to another institution and get a degree or award from the second institution.

 

---------------

 

A separate issue is what is referred to as "transfer preparatory" or "transfer prep".  This concept applies primarily to two-year institutions that have "transfer prep" programs, but it may also apply to institutions that have 3/2 programs, or other programs.  Please refer to the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) on the IPEDS website for the Spring Data Collection for more information on transfer prep.  

 

The Glossary defines it as follows:  A program designed specifically to provide a student with the basic knowledge needed to transfer into a higher level program. For example, this may be the first 2 years of a baccalaureate level program for which the institution does not offer an award, or 2 years of undergraduate study needed for entrance into a first-professional program, or 1 or more years of undergraduate study needed for entrance into health services fields.

 

It is important to understand this concept because the SRK regulations allow institutions to count as completers those students that complete transfer prep programs.  They should be included with those receiving degrees and other awards when calculating a graduation rate.

 

I hope this helps clear up some questions.

 

Susan Broyles

IPEDS Program Director

NCES

-----Original Message-----
From: Petruccio, Diane [mailto:dpetruccio@ursuline.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 1:00 PM
To: Common Data Set
Subject: [cds] RE: Graduation Rates & transfer outs

we've done it in the past, but it only tracks students who transfer to participating schools.

 

 

All I really need to know about life I learned from Noah's Ark:
     *Don't listen to critics, just get on with what has to be done.

       *For safety's sake travel in pairs.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cardwell, Susan [mailto:susan.cardwell@mwsu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 12:08 PM
To: Common Data Set
Subject: [cds] RE: Graduation Rates & transfer outs

 

www.studentclearinghouse.org   -  12 cents per student, which is almost $800 a year for us, will track your students by SS#. we don't do it, but my boss is often tempted.  

 

Susan Cardwell
Midwestern State University
Wichita Falls, TX

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Petruccio, Diane [mailto:dpetruccio@ursuline.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 11:02 AM
To: Common Data Set
Subject: [cds] RE: Graduation Rates & transfer outs

I took the IPEDS definition to mean 2-year schools, although I may be wrong.   I don't know about other schools, but we do not get good transfer out info from our students or the NSC, so unfortunately transfer-outs appear in the attrition numbers along with drop-outs.

 

If someone has a way to track and capture this information, and/or another take on the instructions of "could count," I'd be interested in that information as well.

 

Diane Petruccio, Director
Institutional Research
Ursuline College

        Values. Voice. Vision
www.ursuline.edu
440.646.8390            

"You must learn from the mistakes of others.  You can't possibly live long enough to make them all yourself."  (Sam Levinson)

 

All I really need to know about life I learned from Noah's Ark:
     *Don't listen to critics, just get on with what has to be done.

       *For safety's sake travel in pairs.

-----Original Message-----
From: Phyllis Streeter [mailto:streeter@sxu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 11:54 AM
To: Common Data Set
Subject: [cds] Graduation Rates...

In calculating 4 to 6 year graduation rates in the past, I have not included transfer-out students in my headcounts. I have been asked however to look into whether I should be. In reviewing the IPEDS GRS definition, it does mention that the rate could include those who transfer to other institutions if transfer is part of the institution's mission, which it is. So I would like to know if any of you are including transfers who completed programs of study at another institution. Thanks.

 

Phyllis Streeter

Saint Xavier University

Chicago, Illinois