Ken,

I don't actually disagree with you. I was just picking up, maybe without cause, a sentiment of finding a way to "hide" folk in a non-degree category so that they wouldn't count in retention and graduation rates.

That was why I said "eligible for financial aid". That probably isn't a perfectly well-defined statement either. I guess I was trying to get at the concept of student intent.

No matter what we do there will be error. The young woman you describe in your example could become inspired by her college experience and decide to keep on and complete a degree in 4 years. And we could have students with no intention of staying but who want financial aid so they declare for a program they have no intention of finishing.

We can't retroactively adjust our cohorts for reasons like this so we have to have clear rules that make sense.

The definition you quoted, by the way, is incomplete. We also need to include students who start in the summer and who continue in the fall as first-time fall freshmen.

Mark

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From: "Reaves, Kenneth" <kreaves@flsouthern.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:58:43 -0500
To: Common Data Set<cds@collegeboard.lyris.net>
ReplyTo: cds@cblist.org
Subject: RE: [cds] Cohort Counts

I must beg to differ.  IPEDS definition states:

 

The group of students entering in the fall term established for tracking purposes. For the Graduation Rates component, this includes all students who enter an institution as full-time, first-time degree or certificate-seeking undergraduate students during the fall term of a given year.

 

I asked specifically about non-degree students and both the IPEDS help desk individual and supervisor said no they are not counted.  I’ll give you a scenario.  A recent high school graduate is hired as an executive assistant.  They have never attended college.  The company agrees to pay her tuition to take the two comp courses, an intro to business software course and a intro to accounting course.  She has 12 hours, but she is not interested in earning a degree.  She simply wants to take these courses the company is paying for.  With this scenario, IPEDS said, she is considered non-degree seeking and not part of the fall cohort for retention or graduation rates.

 

Ken

 

Ken Reaves

Director of Institutional Research and Effectiveness

Florida Southern College

kreaves@flsouthern.edu

 

From: markchis@unm.edu [mailto:markchis@unm.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:43 AM
To: Common Data Set
Subject: Re: [cds] Cohort Counts

 

If a student is new to higher education and out of high school, taking a full load, and eligible for financial aid as a full-time student, then they should be reported as FT first-time freshman regardless of the admission bucket you put them into.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From: "Simpkins, Alice" <ASimpkins@paine.edu>

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:32:16 -0500

To: Common Data Set<cds@collegeboard.lyris.net>

ReplyTo: cds@cblist.org

Subject: RE: [cds] Cohort Counts

 

"non-degree seeking" is a different Admission's category.  Therefore, they would NOT be included at Paine.

Alice

 

**********************************

Alice M. Simpkins

Director of Institutional Research

Paine College

1235 Fifteenth Street

Augusta, GA 30901-3182

Off: 706-396-8111

Fax: 706-396-8153

asimpkins@paine.edu


From: Reaves, Kenneth [kreaves@flsouthern.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:26 AM
To: Common Data Set
Subject: RE: [cds] Cohort Counts

Thanks everyone.  You’ve confirmed what I have been saying.  I also talked to IPEDS help desk and their reply was consistent.  The only students who are not to be counted are FT non-degree seeking.  The only caveat is, if the registrar classifies a student as FT non-degree, but financial aid reports them as FT degree seeking for financial aid purposes, then the federal government considers them FT degree seeking and they must be counted.  So, an institution can identify students as conditional/special accepts who are non-degree seeking and not count them, as long as they do not receive financial aid.

 

Ken

 

Ken Reaves

Director of Institutional Research and Effectiveness

Florida Southern College

kreaves@flsouthern.edu

 

From: Uerling, Laura [mailto:luerling@stonehill.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:12 AM
To: Common Data Set
Subject: RE: [cds] Cohort Counts

 

It depends on how you define “conditional accepts”. We have what we call “special accepts” that are similar to conditional accepts, but they are accepted as FT, NON-degree seeking students until they prove they can do the work. Those we do not count in the freshmen cohort. However, such a category would not be helpful to exclude athletes from the cohort because as I understand it, they have to be degree-seeking to compete.

 

So, in terms of conditional, or special accepts, FT, degree-seeking, in, FT non-degree seeking, out.

 

Laura Uerling

Stonehill College

 

From: Broderick, Mike [mailto:mbroderick@sjc.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 9:38 AM
To: Common Data Set
Subject: RE: [cds] Cohort Counts

 

Same as Alice. Not counting conditional accepts would be a way for a college to have its cake and eat it too.

 

Mike

 

**************************

Michael Broderick

Director of Institutional Research

Saint Joseph College

West Hartford, CT

860.231.5430

 

From: Simpkins, Alice [mailto:ASimpkins@paine.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 9:30 AM
To: Common Data Set
Subject: RE:[cds] Cohort Counts

 

I count all students who are categorized as "first-time freshmen" in the Admission's Module who entered in the fall or in the previous summer and returned in the fall.  I have never seen anything in the definition for IPEDS that says to exclude them.

 

Alice

 

**********************************

Alice M. Simpkins

Director of Institutional Research

Paine College

1235 Fifteenth Street

Augusta, GA 30901-3182

Off: 706-396-8111

Fax: 706-396-8153

asimpkins@paine.edu


From: Reaves, Kenneth [kreaves@flsouthern.edu]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 4:45 PM
To: Common Data Set
Subject: [cds] Cohort Counts

From time to time I get asked the following question:

 

Who do we have to include in our first-time in college cohort for IPEDS and the CDS?  In reply, I answer, “all degree seeking students who have not attended college since graduating from high school.”  I answer this way because it is simpler.  Granted, this includes students earning AP, CLEP, Dantes, IB or dual enrolled credit in HS.  I also included students enrolling the summer prior to the fall. 

 

That’s the easy part of the question.  The “sticking point” seems to be colleges who have “conditional admits” who are there for a semester to see if they can come up to institutions admission standards.  How do you handle such students?  Do you count them, or do you wait till they move from conditional admits to regular admits?

 

Thank you,

Ken

 

Ken Reaves

Director of Institutional Research and Effectiveness

Florida Southern College

111 Lake Hollingsworth Dr.

Lakeland, FL 33801

Phone: 863-680-3007

Fax: 863-680-3008

kreaves@flsouthern.edu

 

 

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